Thursday, 12 March 2009
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Asian Kids Are Set to Much Harsher Standards
This recent Lovelyish Post was inspired by past entry on Female American Beauty vs Asian Culture's Ideal Beauty."
Yes, in a lot of Asian cultures pale = beautiful. I lived in Hong Kong for 10 years and girls try to avoid the sun. There was also a very popular line of beauty products named "white beauty" and was supposed to make your skin pale. It was an expensive line.
I don't know about Vietnam, but girls in Hong Kong and Tokyo are set to harsher standards if we are talking thin. I've heard some girls in Hong Kong say, "Losing weight is my full time job; my day job is secondary to losing weight!!"
Have you seen how thin those girls are? Their dress and clothes sizes are way smaller than ours. I am a small or medium here, but in Hong Kong I cannot fit into ANY medium sized clothes. My skinniest friends here have had trouble buying jeans when they go to Hong Kong.
When I was in Hong Kong buying a bra, I was told by the store owner that no girls my age (I was 22 at the time) have breasts my size and that is why she only had 2 bras in her entire bra store that fit me. I would say most girls in Hong Kong would fit in a size 1 or size 0 American pant size.
This is true for the men too. My fiancee buys XS t-shirts here while he is a medium in Hong Kong.
If America were as serious as Hong Kong or Tokyo about thin-culture, then why are they thinner than we are? Look at the portions of their food. Look at the average weight of their citizens. True, their food culture may have been lower in fat to begin with, but ever since the thin-fad came along, food portions got seriously smaller. Did you know that the McDonald burgers in Hong Kong are the small ones? Whopper size burgers are not commonly found there.
Think about the chain of events or the origin of the fashion trend to be skinny. It started with models in Paris, Italy, and other cities that lead in fashion right? It DID NOT start in America, at least I don't think so.
It might have started in NY or LA, but the thin trend is really not hitting the general American culture the hardest. Cities like Hong Kong and Tokyo seem more impacted if you ask me, they are like ground zero, and the effect spreads out from there as culture spreads out from those cities.
If you ask me, American culture actually gives more credit to inner beauty to girls than Asia. At least in Hong Kong, I would say a girl's appearance means even more than it does here. What seems like normal weight loss practices in Hong Kong would definitely be classified as clinically anorexic here.
Back in the day, in the old school culture, upper society girls had to mutilate their feet by binding them tightly with bandages to keep their feet small. It is painful and inhumane, but culturally, that is they only way the girls could find a good husband. Girls with big feet (normal adult size) were deemed unacceptable.
Back to current day, in Hong Kong there is a nickname for girls my size (I am 135 pounds, 5'3"); fat girls are called "pork chops" and are ridiculed by society. Yet I am pretty normal, if not thin, for an American. If you are talking about areas like Manhattan or LA or Orange County where there is a more intense fashion culture, then yeah, I'm fatter than the girls there, but in San Francisco I am still not considered fat.
There is one last thing I want to say about American vs Asian culture in relation to appearance/beauty. In my own limited and biased experience, I have observed that Americans in general teach their children that they are loved for who they are, while my impression is that the Chinese culture teaches children that their worth is based on their performance whether it be manners or grades or obedience.
On the streets in China you can hear parents say "I won't love you if you act that way" or "Acting like that makes you not deserve my love/affection." I am not even kidding. That is why in Hong Kong time to time you will hear that an 8 year old or a 11 year old commit suicide when they their grades are failing.
Talk about judgment and rejection; American females that are judged or rejected by men due to not being thin cannot compare to the travesty of parents or a whole family rejecting their children.
With that, I can see why females in Asia are so desperate to lose weight and be like sticks. If my whole self worth depended on how others saw me, I would not be content with knowing that inside I am a kind person who is intelligent and funny.
I would still feel like dirt. A "pork chop" is a "pork chop," no one wants to date or even be friends with a "pork chop," thus the "pork chop" better go lose some weight if she wants to salvage her dignity.
Ironically, the one saving grace for those kids is that China and many parts of Asia are increasingly becoming more Westernized and have slowly adopted parts of American/Western parenting and are starting to care about the children's' self esteem. This is a new trend that would save many children from that kind of cultural pressure.
Does the culture you come from put more emphasis on inner or outer beauty? Is the Eastern or Western model of self-esteem better to follow?
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Comments (31)
oh its just as bad in vietnam -- if not worst?
it could be over 110 degrees outside and they'll still wear arm coverings up to their shoulder - wear a hat with minimal facial/neck exposures etc
I gotta admit although being american born and raised in the US I envy pale skin lol =X the whiter the better!!!!
ugh...where did you find that photo...she's my friend...
Chinese parents have set too much high standards...even living in UK, i cant reach the standards my parents have set me..
Anything over A* is a failure..an asian fail ...
hahah...
I have to wear L or XL when i buy clothes in HK!...and thats like a medium in UK...i wear small/medium clothes..but its like XL in HK >.<...
Really annoys me..especially..in China,, people say it out loud and call you fat..."fei liu...fei juy"...even though you arent really..fat..your normal size in UK..they are like..rude..
TOTALLY agree!
i'm a hong kong girl studying in the UK. I totally agree with you! I just don't understand! Life is about having fun (well it should be)... not eating a thing and keeping a diet all the time are crazy ideas! I believe that as long as you're not obese and your weight does not affect your daily moves it should be alright!
i was brought up on most filipino etiquette, yet the urban parties in 3rd world countries are totally off the hook!
I am also a fat girl who lives in HK. Most of the men in HK will first look at the appearance of the girls and second will look in depth. I dun know it' s really good or not. But the fact is just like this.
Besides, some of my friends studying overseas said that if I go to the foreign countries, many girls' weight would be very similar to mine. I want to go to the overseas then!!!
It is ironic that the Chinese and Japanese culture has predominantly preferred light colour skin as opposed to a darker shade. The reasoning for this preference is that for one to be tanned (darker skin tone) equates to being outdoors or working outdoors like a farmer, peasants or labourer (coolie) where the person is not sheltered and protected from the sun's rays. It indicates a person to be in a low income class. It is similar to feet binding and clothing with very long sleeves where ease of movement (to work) is inhibited.
For North Americans and European whites it is the opposite in terms of skin colour. If a white person has a tan in the winter months, this equates to having the leisure time and money to go on a tropical vacation. It becomes a status symbol for other white people. (If you were born with a tan, that's viewed quite differnetly by this same group. Again ironic.)
I suspect the Hong Kong people had a different metabolism to that of the Europeans and North Americans in the past. Many had been naturally thin as I remebered. Due to the popularity of Western fast food diets, obesity is getting more common along with health issues like diabete.
I think your points in this blog only touches the very thin surface of this subject and does not indicate any significant trends but may be misleading to others about the Asian culture.
It doesn't seem like you ever stopped to think why the standard of beauty is different. I agree with @roy_j@xanga - .
Delve in to the culture deeper than just skimming and minimal observation.
now you know =D
haha~~~hongkong's girl are very thin!!!!
because there are many teases on fatty!!!
so....no one wanna be teased by someone!
@roy_j@xanga - Prior to maybe 70 years ago or so, it was the opposite in America and Europe. If you had a tan, it also meant that you had a menial job and were of a lower class. Only recently has it become en vogue to get a tan.
I have been living in Japan for the last year and it seems to me that young women here try to keep themselves in perpetual childhood. I am not fat by American standards, but I am more rounded out. My Japanese girlfriends will say, "You're not fat. You're sexy" but whenever I comment on how skinny they are, they say, "Noooooo, I'm too big! I need to lose more weight." But the perpetual childhood comes through in the fashion style. Right now, the babydoll look is extremely popular and just about everything that we in America would probably have thrown out of our bedrooms by the age of 10, they go crazy over, and then take it to the umpteenth degree. I just bought a change purse for one of my good friends who is 23...it was silver and pink with white polka-dots and had a metallic image of a girl bunny rabbit with a big pink bow and plastic diamond sewn onto the ear. She was giddy to receive it. I just learned that there is a 6-story Barbie plaza in Beijing, and it's not for little girls. But ya know, different strokes for different folks. I do know that Japan is one of the worst countries for eating disorders and depression among both men and women. I think it's because they set pretty unrealistic standards among the people but also do not have the flexibility within the society for true personal expression.
yeah, whenever i go to taiwan i feel like im the fattest person in the country -_-. Â but i don't know, i feel like in asian, any stick-thin woman is considered "sexy" while in america men don't like that..they like women that look like WOMEN, with curves, not a pile of bones with a flat chest.
I find it disgusting when Asian's bleach themselves white. Comical that most asian's are racist to thier own skin color.
look at MJ
and you will find the answer
@filipinahostagetaker@xanga - asians bleaching themselves white is no less disgusting than caucasians chemicalizing themselves tan.
@pkcricket@xanga - i
agree--i believe the reason many maintain that childlike mindset in
some things is because they are under so much pressure in all other
areas of their life--it's somewhat of an escape for them, in order to
carry on throughout all the intense pressures they constantly face.
=+=
this is an interesting topic--good post to read, thanks for writing! that being said..i think whoever wrote this appears to come from a western culture; you
claim there is a saving grace that the eastern side is adopting western
values. western models and the images many in western cultures try to adhere themselves to are just as thin as many easterners. regardless of if more westerners cannot achieve the same amount
of discipline as easterners to obtain those scarily skinny weights,
they can't claim many don't desire that.
BOTH cultures submit
unrealistic standards of weight and beauty, in my opinion. this comes
from someone who is half of each and has lived much time in both
cultural settings. it's similar to the whole "are asians smarter" debate--i don't think they are; they are just harder working and more disciplined at academics (yes, mainly because of pressures ingrained into them since birth).
as for the clothing size thing--when i lived in asia, i wore larger sizes there because of height..even tho just as skinny (back then! haha).
@HIN_0226@xanga
I guess I have been living in asia too long so I forgot about white people trying to make themselves brown
I guess I must be wierd for a guy. Honestly looks for me do not matter too much, as long as the woman is clean and presentable.
You look at the woman, after you talk to her for like 2 hours. You hear the same thing about how she wants to get new clothes. Change her appearance etc. Then she wonders why you are bored to tears talking to her.
what still really shocks me is when I see an obviously asian woman with wide caucasian eyes. The eye-widening surgery is becoming popular...the area I'm in is still pretty country, so I only see a handful of woman with it done, but I'm sure in more stylish parts of Japan more women have had it done.
i know what you mean, a lot of what you said is truth. it is sad that so many people in hk commit suicide due to grades. but that is because it is also so competitive there for education. i wish the world would stress more on internal beautification, but that will take a while or never happen because it is human nature to be vain. not saying that is right, but that is something that i believe is in our genetics no matter how hard we try to change it. sure we can suppress it, but then there will still be part of us that are still shallow in every part.
Oh well, in Vietnam, if you dont wear a mask, or a jacket or something to cover you then you'll probably get burnt by the sun. The sunshine here is not like the other countries', it's much stronger !!! And for the mask, can you stand it when you ride ur motorbike and the vehicles ahead you keep exhaling the smoke which is full of dusts outside, and obviously, they'll fly right into your nose and fill your lung with tons of dusts. We're just trying to protect ourselves.
But I totally agree with you about the white beauty here in Asia. I really have no idea why to us Asian, being white is one of the most important factor to be called a beauty. I mean, white or yellow or tanned, it doesnt matter right? I think all that matters is who you are! But well, not so many people here have the same thought like mine. My cousin's friends are totally into this. All they care about is how to become white. They've been trying a lot of creams, lotions... to make themselves more white. I think they look even more white than a person who's from temperate zone does, tsk! I have to admit that sometimes they do scare the freak out of me, since they look so like ghosts or vampires, tsk! This is stupid, I have to say.
And yeah, you're totally right when you mentioned about the pressures that Asian parents put on their children's shoulder. I went through those hard times when I was in elementary, when I was in junior high, and of course highschool wasnt an exception. You know, I think Asians are scared of losing their faces. They always want to be the best, or at least, good in everybody's eyes. And of course, parents want to show off about their children, and what is more exciting, amazing than a kid who's good at everything: polite, study well, know how to do the house-work, obey... The pressure is very high, I may say. Tsk, poor kids, poor us!
And well, sorry for my bad English ^^"
I understand what you are trying to say, and on some points agree with you. But there are some serious cultural factors being left out of this observation as well as other aspects which have not been touched upon.
First and foremost, I'd like to address the "Pale skin is beautiful" issue. This is something that has been drilled into generations of Chinese, Cambodians, Japanese, etc. The root of this is that based upon one's skin you can observe what work they do and as such what class they come from. The paler your skin the higher your class. It has engrained itself into these cultures, and has heavily influenced their view of beauty. But you cannot simply blame a people for the traditions and worldview which has been passed onto them from their ancestors when they neither asked for it nor sought it out. Each of us [no matter where we come from, what ethnicity we are, or what culture we were raised in] have at least a handful of thoughts, ideas, preconceived notions, traditions, etc. that we carry with us and whether we are aware of it or not may be quite harmful to ourselves, unfair to others, or simply not true.
Both America and Asia deal with the pressure to be perfect and conform to an ideal standard of weight, height, skin-tone, etc. I am inclined to agree with you that Asia's social environment is harsher than America's, but this does not mean that we can give ourselves a pat on the back and a gold star and say we're doing well. Because in reality, we are currently struggling with the opposite issue of anorexia/bulimia -->obesity. I won't go into detail b/c it would take too long, but I just want to take note of it. Whether it's because we are completely unhealthy and unrestrained in our eating, exercising, and ability to discipline ourselves or because we are so comfortable with who we are the fact of the matter is that this is unhealthy as well.
As for the size of clothing over there, I would like to make two comments. First, I would just like to observe that the majority of Asians/Pacific Islanders have a smaller build and bone structure, which would naturally have an affect on their clothing standards [though this does not mean that all Asians everywhere are tiny, short, or thin. Please do not misunderstand me, I am not making a stereotype but simply stating a fact.] Also, I would just like to point out that simply because they label their clothes smaller does not necessarily mean the entire country is obsessed with being thin. In the UK, their sizes are higher than ours. This does not denote that they would like to consider themselves bigger, larger, or fatter than us. It is simply a different scale of measuring and labeling their clothes. If you are a size 10 in the U.S. you would be a size 40 in the U.K.Â
As for your statement about America giving more credit to inner beauty than Asia, I both agree and disagree with this comment. I think America is trying to send the message through various ads and tv shows and such that we need to remember that inner beauty is what truly counts. Yet, at the same time most of the people who grace the cover of magazines, the cast of tv shows and movies, and clearly the models who walk the runway are all thin and beautiful and fashionably dressed. It's like, America refuses to let go of the ideal perfect, but instead is taking that picture of the perfect thin and fashionable woman and having her embrace inner beauty as well. This is not healthy either, saying that we have to be all of these things at the same time and if we're not we are nothing.Â
But here is where I agree with you - Asia is indeed harsher in its standard because it does not seem to have this added focus on inner beauty as America does. In America, many people are overweight or obese or simply not happy with their weight, yet because of this ongoing push for inner beauty these people strive to accept who they are or they simply continue to live unhappy lives always wishing they were thinner, taller, more beautiful etc. I think this is part of the reason why you do not find young children taking their lives over weight issues like you mentioned in Asia. They still have that gleam of hope that inner beauty can count for more or that maybe one day they can achieve that ideal weight, standard, or model.Â
And this is where I think one of the huge cultural aspects has been left out in your observation. I mentioned that I agree with you that Asia is harsher because they seem to leave our this idea of inner beauty. But in addition to this, you must understand that in almost every Asian culture there is the struggle and battle of honor vs. shame. Each culture has its issues, and many have a mixture but as a summary, most Western cultures struggle with guilt while most Middle Eastern cultures struggle with fear and most Asian cultures struggle with shame. As I said before, often times cultures and individual people may have a mixture of these struggles, but for the most part the issues may be summed up as stated.
Within most Asian cultures, it is of the utmost importance to maintain one's honor - the honor of the family, that is. For, if one member has been shamed, he or she has brought that shame upon the entire family. And this is where the issue of the comments parents make to their children come in. A mother may say "I won't love you if you act that way" because the child is doing something which is shaming her and thus the whole family. And unfortunately, as you mentioned in your post, the harsh reality of all this is that the pressure and shame can weigh so heavily upon a person and even a child, that they may choose to take their own life. So, the 11 year old who struggles with keeping his grades perfect does not wish to continue to bring shame to himself or his family, and that is at the root of his reason for committing suicide. It is tragic and harsh and unacceptable.... All of these cultural aspects and concepts tied together seem too much for him to handle. The difference is that if a child in America were to have this struggle with his grades, he would probably feel guilty and blame himself for this problem. But because of our individualistic mindset, he would not feel that it reflected poorly upon his parents or his upbringing as a whole. He would feel bad and might even wallow in self pity. He would live a life with guilt, not take his life. You see, things seem to magnify and become greater in an Asian culture because it is so holistic and as you said a child may be rejected by his whole family and not just one person.
So, it's not that the parents don't care about their children's self-esteem. They care more about the honor of the family name. I am not saying that this is right. I am just saying that this is how it is viewed. I myself am a second generation Asian American and even though I grew up in America, I have been raised with a strong sense of honoring my family in all that I do which many times conflicts with the American concept of individualism that I have also been raised among and in.Â
Ultimately, I agree with you that so many young people in Asia are set to a harsher standard. But I think the root of the issue is in the way the culture responds to a drop in the standard. In America, if you do not reach a goal you can always try again because this is a country where dreams come true and people can start at the bottom and work their way up and because inner beauty and decency and integrity are valued [for the most part]. And you are judged on an individual basis and can make a comeback. But in Asia, if you fail in one are even by one mark, you are tainting your family name and bringing shame upon your whole household. Those kids carry the weight of their entire family upon their shoulders and it is simply too much to endure. I think both America and Asia have things that could be readjusted and viewed in a healthier light. We can both learn from one another. I know I have valued my Asian heritage as well as my American upbringing. I see things differently because I have a mixed worldview, and I rather enjoy having a different perspective and being able to gather truths and values from each culture.
I am lucky to be naturaly pale for an asian. I won't have to worry about my skin colour due to the fact that if i stay out of the sun, my skins just gets lighter and lighter.
Also, over there, if you are over 120 pounds you get called fat. Most girls there are 100 to 120 pounds.
Yeah in asian culture if you're dark skinned. You're considered dirty. So in most asian culture Pale = the it thing if you're not pale you're filthy.
I feel this is only the tip of the iceberg...
Bottom line: It doesn't matter where you go, women are crazy everywhere.
I dated a girl in Japan, and she ate a piece of bread for breakfast. The equivalent of a rice ball in the afternoon, and a small portion of pasta at night. I don't know how she survived.
But whatever. At least they aren't killing themselves with heart disease left and right like Americans.
@OhDayumsayum@xanga - That's funny how people just determine the unhygenic ones by skin colour.Â